Re: End of Christianity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Counts
I agree that changing the argument is not a good rebuttal (However we all (including you) do it from time to time)
I will freely admit I am not the best person to defend the Christian faith however you have not What you did was post Thomas Jefferson Quotes that supported your opinion (I suspect that you would not be quoting him so much when you argue for gun control)
What is your main beef with religion(Christianity) I assume that it is mainly political and more specifically stem cell related due to your illness and given your situation I can not blame you.......That being said IF your religion holds that life is sacred before birth then it does make things more compatated (I personally think that Abortion after a fetus aka unborn baby is viable outside the womb is not something that should be done for anything short of saving the mothers life) Getting back to the stem cell debate IF the cells are to be harvested from Fetuses that are to be destroyed anyway I do not think it is a bad thing (However I can see how that some are protesting the fact that the fetus is destroyed at all).
I am sure we have all been bugged by someone wanting to "save" us but IMHO it has never been 1/2 as bad as the atheist that trys equally as hard to renounce and reticule your faith.
Faith aka religion at its best inspires us to be better people
I quoted several people, the only ones that seem to sink in are T.J. I like using TJ in that argument anyways because its always "the founding fathers built this nation of Christianity", when that's obviously not the case.
No, it really doesn't have much to do with politics or stem cells honestly - though that definitely solidifies it in some ways. I've been around it/in it my whole life, so I was definitely exposed, but I really just have stepped, looked, read, thought and come to the conclusion that I think its all a bunch of crap. It's far fetched to begin with, asking questions really isn't too "good" and its really them having an answer for everything, but not really answering anything - if you get what I'm saying.
The stem cells have been an important issue for about 6 years now, so I've felt that way about that for awhile and has little to do with it - but again just goes back to the getting in the way of rationalization. There really is only those kind of stem cells, the ones that would be thrown away. Embryonic stem cells come from those fertilization procedures, I'm sure you know how it works...they make so many embryos, implant a few in you and people usually stop after they have ever how many kids they want(a lot of the time, they're just happy with 1, maybe 2) then you can either turn the freezer off, use them all like the octuplet mom or donate them for stem cell research. So since most people who do this aren't crazy and use them all, there's usually plenty left over...so throw them away or donate them so possibly one day some people can walk again, cure their disease maybe and really a huge amount of possibilities. Now to me, that shouldn't be an issue at all. I mean I'm not saying force people to give them after they're done, but why in the world would you just throw them away...it "killing" either way if you want to look at it that way. So again, I have no idea how that is an issue and it shouldn't be.
And I disagree that the atheist are worse, of course some impose their "non-belief" on people like a lot of christians. But they aren't as bad as shaping legislation here, that effects everyone here...not just getting into an argument and them saying "you're wrong..blah, blah, blah."
It's the way you worded that last part that proves my point. "At its best", hardly anyone does everything they are supposed to pertaining to religion. That's true, it does inspire people to do good - the reason I love Jesus still, because he has inspired people to do good. But there's a difference in asking "what would jesus do?" and actually doing what Jesus would do. Just because a person believes in God, doesn't mean they have all these morals and aren't bad people...going back to a few posts ago about the prison population and the atheist nations. It may inspire people to do good or in better words tell you what's right and wrong, but that does mean you'll follow the righteous path and do right. I think religion was created to "keep the peace" and later on, money, money, money.
Re: End of Christianity...
People who claim our nation wasn't founded on Christian principles, simply believe what they watch on television to much imo.
Re: End of Christianity...
the ideology of the time of the birth of the united states was singular, meaning no other religions, aside from quakers and such, were involved in the creation of the united states.
but when the country grows and more people deflect from the basic ideological set, you cant govern based on those religious principles alone, because of the rights of the minority and such
and if you think christian policies arent dictated in american life, then i think your head is in the sand.
stem cell research, putting porn directors in jail, etc...
and cant people who believe otherwise still instill good morals? or is it just restricted to christians being able to teach a child "right"?
Re: End of Christianity...
It's a pretty big struggle with me, obviously, we were founded by Christians. I personally believe in God, was raised in a Baptist Church, but have no problem with other people believing otherwise. From a moral point of view, I oppose gay marriage (have no problem with Civil Unions), abortion, etc but understand from a government point of view that I can't dictate my morals to other people, nor should the United States Government.
Re: End of Christianity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pvfan
People who claim our nation wasn't founded on Christian principles, simply believe what they watch on television to much imo.
It wasn't, they were the same..but it wasn't part of common law like TJ said. It was common sense laws...you don't see that you have to be respect to your father and mother in there? Have any other Gods other then the Christian God? And others of course, shouldn't those be laws since it was founded on Christianity? Its not because it wasn't, the no killing, stealing are common sense laws and laws that have to be in order to keep peace and have a working nation.
And another one would be the "War on drugs", it's from Christianity and what's causing the stupid laws against Marijuana. The nation should have learned its lesson from the prohibition days.
Re: End of Christianity...
I'd love to hear how you think it wasn't, the original charter of the Virginia Colony talked about propagating the Christian Religion, 11 of the 13 colonies had laws saying you had have firm belief in Jesus and the Bible to serve in public office, 50 men who formed the Constitution were Christians, I could go on but you get my point.
Re: End of Christianity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pvfan
It's a pretty big struggle with me, obviously, we were founded by Christians. I personally believe in God, was raised in a Baptist Church, but have no problem with other people believing otherwise. From a moral point of view, I oppose gay marriage (have no problem with Civil Unions), abortion, etc but understand from a government point of view that I can't dictate my morals to other people, nor should the United States Government.
thats all people like me are asking for.
Re: End of Christianity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Burton13
And another one would be the "War on drugs", it's from Christianity and what's causing the stupid laws against Marijuana. .
You know even if I disagree with you I can respect your opinion on most things but that comment is horse s#!t
Look no further than China which discurges all religions and see how they handle there war on drugs
If you want to say Christians are cheafly behind the Anti-Abortion movement or Gay-Marrage than I would agree with you but come on!!!
As for the rest we will have to agree to disagree . I do hope you views on religion do not become as Jaded as my views on Politics however the 2 do share many of the same trates in that as I stated before at there best both can do great things but at its worst they can become twisted and corrupt. That does not mean that Christionaty is bad any more than it means that Democery is bad.
And I WILL continue to strongly dissagree with you about pushy Athists (I have been hit up by both sides and while I don't like getting pushed by anyone only one group seemed to have my best intrests at heart)
Look you are still a young man in another 10-15 years you may feel differant (heck so may I ) all I will say is that reguardless what your religus beleafs are I think you should be quick to share and slow to push your belefes of try to tear down others.
Re: End of Christianity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Counts
You know even if I disagree with you I can respect your opinion on most things but that comment is horse s#!t
Look no further than China which discurges all religions and see how they handle there war on drugs
They're reasoning is that somewhere in the Bible it says that drugs are a sin and they're bad for you. I'm not saying it's like an abortion issue, but it certainly does stem from it(Didn't Jerry Falwells "Moral Majority" fuel it back in the 80's) and politicians "say" that's it. Now do you really think they believe its morally wrong or just because they can't make money on it? The "war on drugs" - which is here and started here in America - has became a joke. If they could tax it without backlash from the religious community, you better believe it'd all be legal..along with prostitution.
Re: End of Christianity...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Burton13
Wow, couldn't give me a decent rebuttal? Had to point out an extra letter I put in "trumpet", guessing because you have nothing else. I figured after I basically explained in detail as to why I think Christianity is a joke, that you or someone would give me some factual information with an argument proving me wrong.
I wasn't rebutting you because I didn't even read your argument. Please don't flatter yourself.
It's just pretty damn annoying after the past 6 years of posting here that people still do not know how to spell a simple word.
